"Unpunishable" Women: What the Jill Scott interview taught me about love, work and a rich life
PT.1 - JILL.
Admittedly, I will describe the archetypal black woman that shows up on my Pinterest boards as the “single rich Auntie”; think Solange Knowles, Tracee Ellis Ross and now Jill Scott.
This is what came to mind before listening to both their interviews: first Jill’s interview with Angie Martinez on her IRL podcast (as written below), then Traciee’s interview on Emma Grede’s podcast.
These are my reflections.
Motherhood, Wisdom and the Architecture of Age
“You work hard in your 20s,
you work smart in your 30s,
you work how you want to in your 40s,
you work when you want to in your 50s,
you work if you want to in your 60s.”
This “work philosophy” from Jill Scott is something that’s been living rent-free in my head because at 53, she’s speaking from a place I haven’t reached yet, but desperately want to believe in: that there’s a trajectory beyond hustle, beyond proving, beyond the exhausting performance of always being “on.”
She talks about her mentor pouring into her life and how that now fuels her to pour into her mentees. And listen, as someone currently dipping my toes into mentorship with a recent appointment at an organisation for African women in AI, it was honestly refreshing to hear someone of her calibre navigate that space. Because mentorship isn’t always intuitive, and we don’t talk enough about what it means to hold space for another woman’s becoming while you’re still very much in the middle of your own.
This idea of stewarding wisdom - not just through words but through your actual lived actions - to pass on to the women and girls in your orbit, that’s the thing. She watched her grandmother grieve her grandfather and then release that grief to move on. That observation shaped her entire relationship with emotional pain. It taught her that feelings are meant to move through you, not cement themselves in your bones.
And when she speaks about appreciating her age, the wisdom that now gives her art depth, I feel something shift. Because we’re not really taught to want to be older as women, are we? We’re taught to cling, to preserve, to mourn each passing year. But Jill is offering a different perspective where age is accumulation and refinement, not erosion.
She also seems to have found the perfect balance between parenting and work as she speaks about her son with this particular kind of respect that catches you off guard. The kind of reverence that suggests she sees him as a full person, not an extension of herself or a prop in her narrative.
On the Creative Process: Befriending the Creator
“I have allowed myself to be friends with the creator.”
Angie Martinez is a seasoned music journalist, and she was able to pull Jill into conversations about her historic, iconic performances. Hearing Jill share the backstories of some of her pivotal on-stage moments did something to me.
Because as a Nigerian woman entering her mid 30s with such a long way to go, and yet a robust and diverse work history, I’m always looking at the next project, the next career move. I’m so focused on what’s ahead that I’m not nearly appreciative enough of how far I’ve already come.
When Jill says, “I have allowed myself to be friends with the creator,” the way I interpret it is that she’s talking about her relationship with the creative process itself. And the way she describes it (God-like in a metaphoric sense) it’s almost sensual. She’s charming and beautiful as she talks about her romantic desires, and then she segues seamlessly into her creative process, like they’re cousin experiences.
The same longing, the same surrender, the same aliveness required.
Romantic Partnerships and the Messy Territory of Desire
“We are not in tiny boxes, we are a whole spectrum of things.”
Jill describes herself as a “dominant submissive” and while that part of the interview has been clipped, shared online to a polarising response (understandably so considering the increased attacks on women’s rights all over the world particularly in the United States where she resides), I hold empathy and consideration for Jill while acknowledging that this perspective being shared may seem badly timed to female audiences online. Because I think what Jill is actually seeking (as an accomplished black woman who has had to make so many decisions, who has walked so many paths on her own) is some “soft landing” emotionally and perhaps financially. Not subjugation. Not the erasure of self.
I don’t think “submission” is quite the right descriptor for what she’s describing, but rather a mutually respectful relationship with a man who genuinely loves and considers her. When you actually listen to her full list of requirements for an ideal partner, they mirror the desires that so many cis-heterosexual women have: to be in relationships not poisoned by sexism and misogyny, to be seen fully, to be met with effort and intention.
She also talks, quite humorously, about her sexual desires, in particular, wanting to be with a man with some stamina(which, okay Ms Scott! LOL). She shares how she experienced a sexual awakening through watching Vanessa Del Rio, the 70s and 80s adult film star, and being struck by Vanessa’s complete confidence in the bedroom.
I find myself constantly reflecting on the importance of women having genuinely agentic lives, and such a massive part of that is owning your body and the experiences you have in the world with your own body, without compromise of safety or pleasure. Not performing sexuality for the male gaze. Not contorting yourself into what you think desire should look like. But actually knowing what you want and pursuing it with the full force of your personhood.
All Good Things…..
Angie: “What is one thing you’re no longer apologising for?“
Jill: “Myself.“
As a woman with not just wit, talent and intellect, but also curiosity, Jill also talks about the books that have shaped her view on women’s power and self-determination. She cites Women Who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estés, pulling out symbols and mythology of feminine power and discussing how they’ve been systematically demonised or debased by patriarchy in our modern world.
She talks about ancestral wisdom that women hold, and how these oppressive systems work overtime to subjugate us from tapping into our ancestral wisdom and feminine intuition. Because a woman who knows herself, who trusts her inner knowing, who understands she comes from a long line of women who survived impossible things: that woman is frankly dangerous to systems built on our compliance.
And maybe that’s what we’re meant to take from the Jill Scott interview. Not a blueprint, but permission. Permission to be contradictory, to want softness and power simultaneously, to refuse the tiny boxes we’re supposed to neatly fold ourselves into. Permission to be 53 and still figuring it out, still desiring, still becoming.
I think Jill has gotten through her own spiritual evolution (a hero’s journey, her personal mythology perhaps……) that has not only led to a soulful life but made her an imperfect or “Wabi Sabi” feminine sage.
Confidence, compassion, pleasure, authenticity – these are the many facets of Jill Scott and I’m excited to see what’s next.
This is part of a two-part series on “unpunishable women”, that is women leading “agentic” (self-directed), empowered and resourced lives.
It was inspired by interviews recently given by Jill Scott and Tracee Ellis Ross.
READ PART 2 HERE:
Enjoyed the first analysis as I did the 2nd. That line your wrote, “ …where she is a accumulation, refinement and not erosion. “ what a line. I’m enjoying aging so much more by seeing women’s examples like Tracee and Jill. I’ve made it a habit following women who embrace all the beauty and mess that comes with aging. Seeing as next level, not a degradation in value. Keep writing enjoying your articles. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Loved every bit of this and the entire premise of creating a space for women to think about themselves and their agencies. Thank you for writing. Watched Tracee’s interview. Going ahead to watch Jill’s now.